An episode of “Changing the Conversation” podcast
Ronitia Hodges and Ashley Stewart share ways to celebrate your accomplishments and the progress of others and discuss why it is important.
October 10, 2023
[Music]
Ashley Stewart, Host (00:05): Hello, and welcome to Changing the Conversation. My name is Ashley Stewart, Director for the Center for Health Equity, and I am hosting this episode with my amazing, wonderful colleague, Roni Hodges. Roni is the Senior Project Manager for ARC4Justice team at C4 Innovations, and we are so excited to come together today to talk about a topic that’s near and dear to our hearts. So Roni, thanks for being here with us today.
Roni Hodges, Guest (00:35): Thank you for having me.
Ashley (00:36): We’re going to talk about how to celebrate yourself, why it’s so hard, and why so many people struggle with it. So I’m really excited to jump into this topic. Maybe we can talk a little bit about the background of it, how we came to decide to talk about this topic for today.
Roni (00:55): We wanted to keep it fun and light, and thinking about the ways that we tend not to celebrate ourselves, and people don’t want to seem self-centered or focus on their accomplishments, especially in the workplace.
Ashley (01:10): Yeah. Why is it so hard? Why is it so hard? And you said people don’t want to center themselves. And yeah, that’s a really big part of it. And maybe some part of it, too, is maybe it’s seen differently in different work environments if you’re celebrating yourself or maybe if you make a micro-achievement and you’re like, “Yes, I made it through my emails,” people are like, “Woohoo.” It could be a multitude of different things so celebrating yourself might be a personal journey, but it sounds like it also could be part of an organizational journey too, because the organization has to begin to celebrate and acknowledge incremental changes that can be transformative.
Roni (01:52): Yeah, that’s absolutely right. And I think culturally, people have got into the hustle and feeling like, “I haven’t accomplished anything until I’ve accomplished something big.” So I think in workspaces, it’s important when you’re working on projects, you focus on deliverables, celebrate those milestones and the work that you do. If you’re able to knock out five things on the list of 10 that you have to do for a project, celebrate the five. Don’t focus on the fact that, “I still have five more to do.” That’s true. But you can still celebrate that you’ve gotten halfway there.
Ashley (02:25): Yeah, that’s so true. Me and another one of my amazing colleagues were talking earlier this morning about goals, and I think sometimes we even become so goal-oriented in everything that we do that the big things that we accomplish or the things that we’re really leaning into throughout the day, throughout the week, we might not even see them as goals, but they absolutely are, and they should be things that we take a moment to reflect back on. And one of the things I was hoping we could talk about today is, what is the benefit of taking that pause and reflecting back? What does that do for self and what does that do for the work that we’re doing?
Roni (03:03): So I think those small, incremental celebrations of what you’re doing create habit change, because you are always working towards something, but you’re also celebrating in that course, and that makes you want to do even more. So you do a little work, you do a little dance, you do a little more work, and it just continues the pattern to where it’s not as stressful, I think, for people because when you’re just chugging along to get to the end, you miss the journey of it and the fun of it in the moment. So being able to take a little pause for the cause and say, “You know what? I did that. Yay me,” and before you get to the next thing, I think it’s good for your mental health, your wellbeing, and just for keeping you motivated to keep doing the work.
Ashley (03:44): I love that you bring in the incremental aspect of it and those pauses. One of the things that I love to talk about is, we’ll talk about being inspired and motivated, and inspiration is really important. We see things, we observe other people, and it creates possibility for what we can do for ourselves. And the thing that I think is most important to remember about motivation is that motivation tends to be most sustainable and most authentic when it comes from a reflection of what we have been able to accomplish.
(04:15): So you can look at 9 million videos of people going to the gym and like, “Yeah, I’m going to go to the gym, I’m going to do these workouts.” But that’s not actually going to get you to the consistency part of it. The part about motivation is saying, “I’ve been able to do this for five minutes a day. I’ve been able to do this for 10 minutes a day. Look at me. I went from five to 15,” and building that self-confidence, that self-reliance, in that action is actually what begins to build motivation. We motivate ourselves by taking those small steps and proving to ourselves that we are capable and competent of doing the things that we’re setting out to do.
Roni (04:52): Yeah, and I think when you look at it, you can be motivated all day every day. You can scroll on Instagram and be motivated, like, “Look at them, I can do that.” You see your colleagues achieving, like, “I’m motivated by that.” But it’s really about what you said, the discipline. Every day, getting up and doing that thing, doing it consistently saying, “You know what? I know it was hard yesterday. I’m going to get up and do it again today because I’m trying to get to that end state, that future goal for myself.” If you want to become a better project manager or you want to become a better director for your team, “What can I do every day? How can I show up every day? And how can I celebrate myself showing up every day to do it again the next day?”
Ashley (05:34): Yeah. And this conversation reminded me of a book that I picked up during the peak of the pandemic that really shifted things for me. It’s the Atomic Habits by James Clear and sticks out to me in a quote that’s from the book. It says, “It’s easy to overestimate the importance of one defining moment and underestimate the value of making small improvements on a daily basis.” And I think that that’s so true. There are so many things that… there’s habits or behaviors in this book. He also talks about instead of trying to accomplish the task or accomplish this thing, becoming the type of person that accomplishes those types of tasks.
(06:12): And it makes me think about, we work in an industry and in a profession where a lot of it’s about the outcome or the deliverable. And in order to constantly make deliverables or make outcomes, make the intentional transformation, systemic structural change that we’re so passionate about, we have to be the type of people who are thought leaders, in your words, architects, the engineers of these types of innovation that can sustainably be innovative enough to think through these types of solutions. So it’s not just about the outcome or the deliverable, it’s really about the people. It’s about the people. It’s about the brain power. It’s becoming the type of person that is always thinking creatively, always taking that next step in innovation, always trying to find a solution that’s unique and improves the efficiency of what we’re doing and the effectiveness of the impact.
Roni (07:06): That’s good. That’s good because that made me think, being an architect and you have a design, you work on it, you may do a couple of things, but then you step back and revisit the design. Celebrating yourself is stepping back, looking at design, say, “You know what? I completed this corner of the house. I’m moving on to the next part, but I still need to step back and see where I am, if I need to make a change, if I need to pivot. Because celebrating isn’t always just patting yourself on the back. Celebrating it sometimes saying, “I did that, but what can I improve on the next round?” So having that pause to sit in that space and do that.
Ashley (07:38): That’s so, so good. That’s so good. And it is making me think as I’m sitting here, I’m excited. I’m like, “Yes, what Roni said is so great,” and I’m excited about what you’re saying. And it also makes me think of there’s a part of the culture, there’s a part of the conversation that we celebrate ourselves, but what happens when you have a culture where people celebrate each other incrementally? And I’m really excited to be doing this, that it’s you and I doing this podcast, because this is something I think we model and do really well for each other. So a lot of folks might not even realize it, but throughout the day, we tend to have a culture where we’re celebrating, like, “That meeting went really well,” or, “Wow, we really were able to find a solution to that tricky topic that came up,” or, “That was a really creative idea.” And so in the same way that we’re trying to shift or create this conversation about supporting ourselves, encouraging ourselves, there’s a lot of subtle ways that we can encourage each other that can have a big impact.
Roni (08:38): Yes, and I’m the meme queen, so anytime we’re on meetings… and because we work in a virtual space, which a lot of times it’s more difficult to celebrate yourself and celebrate others, it’s not a place where you can come… “We’re going to have a meeting in the break room at 4:00 to celebrate what we did.” So you have to be very intentional about really telling your colleagues, “You know what? You did that. That meeting was a little difficult. They asked a question we didn’t really know the answer to right in the moment, but you came up with something you really thought about and we were able to deliver.”
(09:08): So really thinking about that and being able to say, “Hey, you know what? You showed up and showed at that meeting,” or “Hey, I can see you some points on whatever system we may use to celebrate folks and being able to call out,” and I think that’s one thing that our organization does really well is creating that space for folks to do that and say, “Hey, you helped me on this call last week. I want to give you a little shout-out, send you some points, buy yourself some Starbucks.”
Ashley (09:34): Yes. And those small, subtle things, people might not realize the potential for impact that it has, because we’re often in our heads a lot. We can be in a meeting and be like, “I don’t know how that went,” or we could be thinking about something like, “I think there’s a next level that I can take it to,” because we are navigating from a basic framework or a cohesive understanding that we’re trying to make dynamic change in our society, at least in our organization. There is a generalized assumption that we are here to make transformative change, to reduce harm, and to think strategically about solutions that are sustainable. That is really core and central to the work that we do. So knowing that it’s core and central to the work that we’re doing, a lot of times, we can be working on something towards that goal and maybe are feeling some self-doubt or lacking that idea spark and having someone reach out to you and say, “I really loved that idea that you had.”
(10:35): Or maybe someone says, “Hey, I know you’re really committed to reducing harm in this particular area. I heard what you shared. I thought that was great. I want to offer you something else.” That momentum that’s being built towards this mutual goal is something I think that really helps organizations create that culture of positivity that says, “I’m here to support you because we share really closely in this goal that we’re trying to accomplish. And so I can bring up things, I can challenge things, I can encourage you on things because,” well, there’s a positive assumption that’s underlying it all that says, “I see you and I know your value, and I know where you’re hoping to go with this work, and I’m in this with you because when you are successful at that, we are successful at that.”
Roni (11:21): Yes. And I think we talk about the sustainability of the work, but that’s really based on the sustainability of the people. So doing those small things to celebrate your colleagues, to celebrate yourself, really helps sustain the human resources that you have in the organization to keep doing the work, making the change, showing up for the community partners, all of those things that keep the work going. Sustaining your colleagues and yourself really is the driver of that.
Ashley (11:53): Yeah. A lot of times, we talk about burnout in different industries or different workplaces, and a lot of times burnout is seen as this individual shortcoming. You’re burnt out because you couldn’t manage this well. And maybe in some instances, that might be true or maybe burnout’s coming because of compassion fatigue based on the types of conversations. It’s also important to look at burnout as an organizational problem. What are the different infrastructures, the resources, the opportunities that exist for people to lean in and support one another, to acknowledge the accomplishments that have happened in the communities that we’re serving, that could be really significant and substantial in reducing burnout? Let’s lean into that at an organizational level to see that it is, it’s about the people. It’s about the people and people feeling supported in what they’re doing.
Roni (12:42): I think organizations should model that for employees.
Ashley (12:46): I do too. And so Roni, you and I, we were laughing before the start of this and talking about how there’s this new trend that’s going on where it’s insert this math, and it’s talking about how people are creating logic flows, essentially, in their brain to make sense of different things. Can you tell us a little bit about the insert math trend that’s going through?
Roni (13:12): It’s the funniest thing that has been happening on social media now, and I see myself in a lot of the math, but as an example, girl math. So thinking about, you go out to dinner with your friends, you pick up the check, and then all of your friends send you money back? You made money that day. “I made money that day because they all sent me money back.” You are no richer than you were before you got to dinner, but it just feels like it. That’s girl math.
Ashley (13:37): I love it. And I’m seeing so many of these too, and I’m just like, “That’s so funny,” because I do think about that. One of the ones that spoke to me personally is, you go to put gas in your car and you put $20. It’s supposed to fill up the tank, whereas $50, you save money that day as opposed to realizing that you’re going to have to go put $20 more in a couple days later. But for some reason, it just felt better that way. And so it’s about these basically cognitive reframings that bring us a sense of peace or make us feel good. And we started thinking about, listen, for entrepreneurs, for thought leaders, for people who are grinding to make their dreams and change come true, there’s got to be some hype math or some yes math that goes on that can contribute positively to people being able to support themselves through the work.
Roni (14:36): Yes, I think yes math, people celebrating themselves, celebrating for their friends. So for me, being able to make it through the full workday and answer all my emails, that’s yes math. “Yes, I did it.” There’s nobody waiting for me to respond to them. And I don’t have any anxiety when I come in the next day.
Ashley (15:00): I am not waking up in the morning like, “Oh my goodness, I didn’t get…” right? Being able to have a good night’s rest, knowing that you accomplish this particular time? That’s yes math. “I did great,” and we might still be working towards something. Oh my goodness, all of our projects aren’t complete and resolved at the end of the day? That doesn’t mean that we didn’t have a successful or productive day. You did a whole lot today that was awesome and amazing and contributed to that goal of that project being successful. That’s yes math. Yes. Congratulations, excitement for yourself. And I think that it is, it’s about recognizing the incremental habit formation. I’ll use an example. I had a personal, professional goal of being able to manage emails. I get a lot of emails a day, and my thought pattern around being successful was zero emails every single day, perfectly neat, organized categories, archived folders that were just pristine.
(16:03): And that was my idea of success. And if I didn’t have that, I was failing at it. And so every once in a while, I get this huge boost of energy where I’m like, “I’m going to do that,” and then I would fall short again and again and again. But instead of having that goal be the metric of my success, I started to focus on changing habits that would allow me to be the type of person that could do that. And so I started building in daily habits, small incremental things, and getting to the part or the process of which that came to fruition was difficult because I had to encourage myself, “Yes, you did good today. You did good today.” And I’m proud to say that I am an archived folder organized email person today. Yes math.
[Laughter] But it wasn’t something that could be done overnight. It was about becoming the type of person who could facilitate that type of work efficiency. And we have to be able to celebrate things like that.
Roni (17:02): Yes. My personal yes math is, because we work in a virtual environment, it can be easy to linger at the keyboard past your office hours. So I finish at 4:00 and I’m looking up, and it’s 6:00. So being able to say, “Every day, I’m going to move a little closer to being able to wrap up everything by 4:00,” and doing that. And it didn’t happen immediately, but now I’m closer to that place. I’m like, “Yes.” Yes math.
Ashley (17:35): Yes math. And to our point earlier about being able to support one another, now I know when I send you a message at 7:00 and it shows me the indicator, I’m going to write you. And I’m like, “Yes.” Because it is about supporting one another and recognizing each other’s goals and progress. And I think that that’s awesome. I think that that’s awesome and something that really can transform a workplace organization and make celebrating ourselves much easier. So we started this conversation about why don’t people celebrate ourselves? Why is it so hard and why people struggle? So just wrapping our conversation up, what are some key takeaways about why it’s so hard, why people struggle, and things that folks can do to get used to supporting themselves and the benefit of it?
Roni (18:28): You are worthy of celebration. It is deserved. It’s not like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. So it’s important to take that time for yourself, carve out that time for yourself, sit back and look at what you’ve done. It’s not about the destination, it’s about the journey, so get in the journey.
Ashley (18:49): I love that. And I think my takeaway is I like to start work or meetings or presentations, facilitations, with this concept of honoring space. And when I lead in this honoring space, what I say is that essentially we don’t come into spaces, put everything that’s going on in our lives in a box, tie that box up, slide it under the chair, and then we’re fully present for whatever that is. We are full, whole people and what’s going on in society, what’s going on in our personal lives, the things that we’re celebrating, the things that we’re anxious about, all of the different parts of our lives come with us into every single space we’re in.
(19:27): And to be healthy is to be able to manage those different things and not pretend like they don’t exist, and so there’s also some self grace that if you had a particularly productive day under the circumstances of which you’re processing something that’s going on, a political decision, your cat is coughing and you’re worried about your cat, or whatever that is, being able to be present and accomplish things under the conditions of life is also worth noting and acknowledging and celebrating, and also giving yourself grace because maybe today’s not the day that you have a perfect inbox day, but you give yourself that grace because you look at yourself holistically from a person-centered, multi-layer, ecological viewpoint to say, “I showed up today in the way that was best facilitated to accomplish the goals that are meaningful and valuable to me.”
(20:21): Lean into that and recognize that every day is not going to be the same, and that’s perfectly okay. I think sometimes, when we’re talking about things like this, it’s easy to say, “We should do that,” but there’s also some inherent value in doing this. And it’s also a necessity, right? I like to say self-care is selfless. Self-care is not something that we can opt to do if we’re wanting to continue to be our best selves in the work environment. It’s something that we have to do because it allows us to continue to show up. It’s such a selfless thing to do. It says, “I’m committed to coming back and being able to give the best version that I can, so I’m going to make sure that I take care of myself so that I can do that.” So I think not only is it something that we talk about, but it’s something that’s important to do and that there’s value in it. What would you say is the value of celebrating yourself, and why is it important to do it?
Roni (21:14): I think of it like your battery being charged. Throughout the day, you do things that run your battery down, you get down to zero. Those celebrations help fill your battery back up. Those are things that’ll recharge you. They give you the opportunity to say, “Job well done.” It’s like hooking up to the charger. “My colleague did something really well.” It’s hooking them up to a charger. So it’s really important because it sustains what you’re able to do for however long you’re able to do it, and that’s going to be determined by how well you take care of yourself. So it’s important that you have those moments to celebrate yourself, celebrate those around you, so we can keep this work going.
Ashley (21:58): So good. Things need to be nurtured, there needs to be stretching and growing for things to change. Things need to be nurtured and cared for and loved in order for it to be sustained. And so I think that this is a conversation we continuously come back to because it is that important and because the value and worth of people is that essential and important to continue to revisit, to continue to make space for, and most importantly, to continue to honor. Roni, thank you so much for having this conversation today with me.
Roni (22:29): Thank you for having me. It’s always a pleasure.
Ashley (22:31): And to our listeners, please tune in next time for our next episode of Changing the Conversation.
Erika Simon, Producer (22:37): Visit c4innovates.com and follow us on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube for more resources to grow your impact. Thank you for joining us. This episode was produced by Erika Simon and Christina Murphy. Our theme song was written and performed by Peter Hanlon. Join us next time on Changing the Conversation.
Roni (22:53): We finished this podcast.
Ashley (22:53): Woohoo. We finished this podcast.
Roni (22:59): We did it.
Ashley (23:00): Look at us.
Roni (23:01): Yes. Yes to us!
[Music]
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