An episode of “Changing the Conversation” podcast
Cedric Woods shares strategies for reaching and engaging Native youth with host Ashley Stewart. This episode is sponsored by the New England Mental Health Technology Transfer Center Network (MHTTC).
June 19, 2023
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Ashley Stewart, Host (00:05): Hello and welcome to Changing the Conversation. I’m your host, Dr. Ashley Stewart, the director of Health Equity C4 Innovations. This episode is sponsored by the New England Mental Health Technology Transfer Center or MHTTC. Our topic today is outreach and engagement with native youth. My guest is Dr. Cedric Woods, a citizen of the Lumbee Indian Tribe of North Carolina, director of the Institute for New England, Native American Studies at UMass. And Dr. Woods is calling in from Boston, Massachusetts. Dr. Woods, thank you so much for joining us today.
Cedric Woods, Guest (00:42): Thank you so much for having me, Ashley, and giving me the space and opportunity to talk about one of the favorite parts of my work at UMass Boston.
Ashley (00:50): I’ve been anticipating and so excited about having the opportunity to have this conversation with you because I’ve been in deep admiration of your work since the day that I met you and got a little bit of insight into the incredible work that you’re doing. So actually I’m hoping that we can start there. Would you mind telling us a little bit about the work that you’re doing at the institute?
Cedric (01:12): Thank you, Ashley. The mission of my institute is to connect regional tribes with university innovation, education, and research. And the way that I interpret or operationalize that is I get to do whatever regional tribes and native communities see and view as important for themselves. And without a doubt, supporting native youth is at the very top of their priority list. And that manifests itself in a variety of different ways, whether it’s via the prevention programs, which you and I were involved with and met one another, educational access and other types of issues and challenges. But it’s a great space to be able to do that work from a university context and engaging with youth, particularly as they begin that transition into adulthood.
Ashley (02:07): Yeah, absolutely. And before we even get into talking about youth, something I just want to highlight from what you said already and talking about the mission, the vision of your institute is leading with what folks see as important for themselves, right? Already they’re just centering not what other folks deem as important. Not even sometimes what we have observed through literatures, but listening to people about what they see as important for themselves. Can you say a little bit more about that?
Cedric (02:39): Before I begin any project, it always starts with conversations, dialogue, and a lot of listening with native communities to gain an understanding of where they happen to be at any particular point in time and always understanding that even though the communities in this region are very closely related to one another and frequently heavily intermarried with one another as well, they still have different priorities in their own community lives. And it’s always important for me, particularly being a guest here in their territory, to foreground that with anything that we pursue. And always keep in mind that just because the community isn’t interested in engaging in a project now doesn’t mean that they won’t be later or for the next iteration. So always keeping that door open is critical for that process as well.
Ashley (03:34): I love that. I love that. And that in itself is already beginning to push ideological norms or cultural norms to create a space that’s truly inclusive and that prioritizes lived and living experience. When it comes to working with native youth, what are some of the things that you see as being essentially paramount as it relates to outreach and engagement?
Cedric (04:00): When I think of those terms, I think about something that I learned from some of my elders about grounding my work in terms of respect, in terms of thinking of reciprocity as foundations to develop relationships with native communities or any other communities for that matter. And part of that respect is being honest and authentic about who I am as a native person and understanding clearly that my experience is not going to be the same as theirs, but it will have many shared themes and helping them to have an understanding about my community so that when I’m entering into their spaces, they can see what we hold in common and also what might be different. And it is an added benefit being from an eastern tribe because many of their parents or grandparents may have been down to my powwow just like I visit their powwows now.
Ashley (05:09): Yeah. When you say respect, grounded in respect, grounded in reciprocity, and then deeply grounded and rooted in authenticity, are there some layers around authenticity that you’re contextualizing or that you’re thinking about that’s specific to being able to express identity that some folks might not think about when we talk about being authentically yourself? What might that look like for these young folks that people are really missing the mark in understanding?
Cedric (05:42): Native peoples are extremely diverse and that frequently is overlooked. So non-native people will bring into a space a particular cognitive framework as to how they expect native people to be. And they’re frequently surprised, and that is disrupted by native peoples that they meet. Another thing is that native peoples don’t all look the same. Not only are our cultures very distinct and different, but in terms of appearance, in terms of physical representation, some present more looking like what are considered non-native communities than others, but they’re still closely connected and bound to one another. And that is frequently surprising for non-native people when they encounter native people who are their neighbors that they didn’t know were indigenous to a particular place. So those are things to keep in mind.
(06:50): And also when it comes down to that authenticity, there’s always this balance for indigenous peoples 100 years ago, now 300 years ago, of navigating multiple cultural spaces and learning how to do that in a way that they are adept from hundreds of years of experience. But being able to shift into their authentic cultural selves at powwows, at celebrations, at family events, but also being able to navigate the classroom in places where many Bostonians don’t think native people exist anymore. And so that’s always something that contemporary native people are having to do and a challenge to living their authentic selves.
Ashley (07:45): Yeah, I’m really glad that you bring up people’s, oftentimes people’s intention to be inclusive. And I think that that’s something that we really are seeing at a head right now is that people are attempting to do practices or engagement that they feel is welcoming or inclusive to native peoples not recognizing that vast diversity of experiences among native people and really missing the mark of creating a space that is not only diverse, that’s not only inclusive, but that also has a root in it of equity and recognizing the differences of how people experience being able to be their authentic self contingent on these systemic and structural factors, contingent on the diversity among tribal groups, the differences among culture within native communities. Speaking of getting youth involved and engaged, what are some of the ways or strategies that you used or seen be effective in helping to engage youth or getting them into spaces that are significant to them or significant to their communities?
Cedric (09:03): I think it’s something that is extremely important. As native peoples, we are indigenous just as there are indigenous peoples in many other continents. But for us here, given that these are our homelands or home waters or in urban areas, we are in someone else’s homelands or home waters, it’s important to circle back and learn the lessons and stories that are tied to those particular places. For indigenous peoples from these particular homelands, they have deep stories, traditions, life ways, practices linked to them that they can use as a touchstone, a way to gather strength, to gather medicine for navigating spaces that sometimes are actively hostile to indigenous peoples and to native youth in particular.
(10:01): And for indigenous peoples from elsewhere like myself, I can also gain strength and resilience from connecting with those places and learning these stories that they share with me about these waters, about the woods, about the rocks and the original teachings that they learned from these places as well. And I get to hold that in contrast with the spaces that are sacred to me and my own homelands. And so those things, I think it’s an important opportunity to help native youth see themselves everywhere, even if they’re not in their home community, that the physical space that the city inhabits is their space and is still theirs regardless of how much concrete, asphalt and buildings are here.
Ashley (10:53): Yeah. That multidimensionality of being able to see and experience homeland in cities, in urbanized areas I think is a really interesting topic and not one that I’ve heard people have a lot of conversation around. What are some of the dynamics of that conversation that you’ve had to navigate or you find particularly difficult and particularly helpful to have when thinking about homelands that are in urban areas or in major cities?
Cedric (11:27): One of the challenges that a lot of native youth have, even if they are from this particular region, can be accessibility. Transportation can be a challenge for many of our youth getting to those significant places, even within the city of Boston. For some of them, those spaces may be on islands and minus a ferry or a boat, you’re not going to get there. And for us, our role has been to think creatively in terms of how to connect those youth with those places and to bring those places to those youth. And so it requires a lot of flexibility and innovation and adaptability as far as the families are concerned too, to work with us to think of how to best connect and best support their youth in these urban spaces.
Ashley (12:26): I just love that you’re thinking about the flexibility, that adaptability, that innovation in your work and really grateful for you doing that really important work. I know that when you and I were processing through what are some topics we’d want to talk about today, you mentioned the importance of interacting with non-human relatives and understanding how important that is for connection. Can you say a little bit more about that here?
Cedric (12:57): One of the key and fundamental understandings of being an indigenous person, a native person, is that the hierarchy that western civilizations establish and view human beings as the pinnacle of all creation and everything else is subordinate to the will of human beings. That rather we are enmeshed in a web of being and that we are mutually interdependent upon our non-human relatives, whether we’re talking about trees, whether we’re talking about fish, whether we’re talking about birds, and that we also have to just as we should demonstrate respect for other human beings, we should demonstrate respect for the water, for the earth, for the air, for our non-human relatives that share this place with us. And that being in appropriate relationships with our non-human relatives means increased viability for all of us in this interconnected web. And scientists–we have a school for the environment at my institution–are now beginning to embrace these broader ecological understandings of interdependence. And so these are things that we want to make sure that youth are aware of as well, that our culture has always had value. It’s just taken some people a very long time to recognize that.
Ashley (14:27): Always has had value, always will have value, and whether or not people are appreciating that value, it still holds. Such a critical and important value. One of the things that came up for me when you were talking is thinking about how important identity development is for young people and also social norms. And so when we’re talking about helping youth understand and connect with non-human relatives, understand and appreciate authenticity as it relates to their culture, understand the critical dynamics between the physical location and homeland as it relates to their lives and their identities. I can’t help but to think about how we talk about social norms, how we talk about identity development.
(15:13): And as I process this live, I’m thinking, well, that has so much to do with building confidence and self-esteem, appreciation for culture, but also learning how to express that culture to people who get it. And sometimes people who don’t get it. Is that something that you see or have to navigate through those critical conversations, helping youth be able to speak their truth, speak their authenticity, and recognizing that some people aren’t going to get it and they might even receive some pushback for being their authentic self.
Cedric (15:44): That is a serious challenge for all youth as they navigate life, but particularly for native youth who are frequently in the numeric minority, if you will, in the majority of the communities here in this region and particularly urban areas. And it is something that we want to make sure that we can do whatever we can to build resilience within those communities, within those youth, within those families, whether it’s providing resources and material that indigenous communities have collaborated with organizations to develop specifically for those communities. It takes place, that resiliency building, through connecting them with significant and sacred spaces, understanding the relationship with non-human relatives and also getting them to cultural activities and engagements, some of which they may have not had as much opportunity to participate in. Because they live geographically some distance away from their home community. And we also want to make sure that they understand that the classroom as well as the powwow grounds are your place. You’re equally welcome in both, and you have a right to be in both and to blend those in a way that makes sense for you in your life.
Ashley (17:14): That’s so powerful. The classroom and the powwow space are all your grounds. Yeah. One other question that comes up for me is what are some of the critical intersections of identities that you’re noticing native youth navigate through? And in addition to that, what might be some things that folks can do to be mindful of those critical intersections?
Cedric (17:42): For the youth that are here in the urban spaces in particular, I think it is always important, particularly for non-native, broader community members to think about: native youth are not just individuals. They are part of broader communities. And so the if activities and programs are being developed to support native youth, to recognize that you’re not just looking to engage with that individual youth, but with the family. And whatever we can do to support, the family supports that native youth, and also to think of ways to intentionally engage and intersect native youth with native elders and with native adults who are engaged in doing all different types of things.
(18:34): Because we want them to see themselves in a future-oriented space in an ability and a thought process and having mentors that will help them grow. I think back, and this goes back to me being my own authentic self, a lot of native elders, community members, teachers poured into me and invested into me. And I see it as part of my obligation and responsibility to do the same for native youth. And to support other native communities to think of how to best do that as well so that we can have a strong, resilient future.
Ashley (19:18): I love that. That was poured into you, and I love that you’re in turn making sure that that’s happening for other folks, both through yourself as an individual, but also through the resources you’re providing to other people in the communities of innovators that you’re developing to be able to expand on this work. So it’s like you reciprocating that, but also creating a foundational landscape that allows for the continuity of it, for the consistency of it and for the long term benefit of it for native youth, and not–I know we’re specifically talking about native youth, but native and indigenous peoples more broadly. So I’m really, really grateful for you taking time to highlight and address the need to do more with native youth and native peoples more broadly in urban areas, and recognizing that sometimes those are native homelands and sometimes they’re not.
(20:24): For folks who might be listening who are like, this is, I’m glad to know that this is happening, that these conversations are happening and they also want to get involved where they want to learn more. I know that you produce lots of resources that are super helpful. What resources would you recommend to people who want to learn more or where might folks be able to find additional resources that you are producing or creating at the Institute?
Cedric (20:51): I do have a webpage, so I encourage you to take a look at it, the Institute for New England, Native American Studies, and it can be found on the homepage for University of Massachusetts-Boston. I also want to encourage listeners to learn about the native peoples and whose homelands they reside. I’ve encountered many colleagues from across the commonwealth who have no idea that the tribal headquarters is a couple of miles away from their place of work or from their home. And the native communities here and elsewhere, my community as well, host very public gatherings where we are welcoming in the public to come in and learn about us and to experience our culture with us. And I want to challenge them to do that at least once this year as a way to show support and engagement and recognition of the ongoing presence and viability, sustainability, and thriving of native communities here.
Ashley (21:57): To our listeners, we will link that website as well as some resources produced by the Institute and Dr. Cedric Woods in the show notes as well as we’ll also include a resource for you to be able to look it up based on identifiers of your current geographic location that you can follow up, and so you can learn more about the native and indigenous peoples whose homeland you currently occupy. Dr. Woods, thank you so much for being with us today.
Cedric (22:27): Thank you for having me, Ashley. It’s been my pleasure.
Ashley (22:29): And to our listeners, join us next time on Changing the Conversation.
Erika Simon, Producer (22:34): Visit C4innovates.com and follow us on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube for more resources to grow your impact. Thank you for joining us. This episode is sponsored by New England Mental Health Technology Transfer Center and was produced by Erika Simon and Christina Murphy. Our theme song was written and performed by Peter Hanlon. Join us next time on Changing the Conversation.
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