An episode of Changing the Conversation podcast.
“Most importantly, elevate lived experience. Policy is most effective when it’s shaped by the people directly impacted. Remember Faces who are visible, Voices, who are vocal prove recovery is valuable.”
May 27, 2026
[Music]
Livia Davis (Host) (00:06):
Hello and welcome to Changing the Conversation. I’m your host, Livia Davis, the Chief Learning Officer at C4 Innovations. Today’s conversation is part of a podcast series called Learning From Our Recovery Elders to Inform Our Work as Recovery Leaders, where we invite recovery leaders to share their wisdom with us. Our aim is not only to preserve our guests’ invaluable insights, but also to inspire current and future leaders as we work to continue to expand access to recovery. My guest today is Maryanne Frangules, who has been active in the recovery movement for many decades. Maryanne retired as the Executive Director of the Massachusetts Organization for Addiction Recovery (MOAR) in January of 2025. And she’s now working part-time as a recovery historian to capture all the memories that led to receiving the Faces and Voices of Recovery William L. White Lifetime Achievement Award. Hello, Maryanne. Thank you for joining us today.
Maryanne Frangules (Guest) (01:14):
I’m very, very happy to be here. Thank you. Thank you, Livia.
Livia (01:18):
To get us started, Maryanne, would you share with our listeners a little bit about your recovery journey and how more the Massachusetts Organization for Addiction Recovery got started?
Maryanne (01:30):
All right. My recovery journey began in the 1970s when I struggled with addiction to diet pills, which we would now call stimulants or speed, along with binge drinking. And at that time, I was dealing with body image, weight, and relationship challenges, and I was looking for relief for that pain. And eventually through treatment, therapy and group support, I found recovery and it changed my life. I became an addictions clinician, but for many years, I did not share that I was in recovery because of stigma. What really shifted things for me was watching patients, the clients, the people in pursuit of recovery, lose access to care in the late 1980s and early 1990s when insurance coverage changed. That means covering less or very badly, almost nothing in my estimation. People were asking, “What do I do? ” And I didn’t have the answers.
(02:28):
That led me beyond my role as a clinician and it was through MAADAC, the Massachusetts Association of Alcoholism and Drug Addiction Counselors, I was being introduced to the whole continuum of addiction services because my life had been so isolated to the clinic that I was working at. And so, I met other treatment providers, and we realized that what we really needed was an organization led by the recovery community itself. With mentorship, I found Leroy Kelly. That led to the founding of MOAR in 1991 to make recovery visible and to advocate for positive change. The lesson is community voice drives change.
Livia (03:11):
And that is certainly a lesson and a message that we want to elevate and celebrate. Is MOAR one of the first peer run organizations in the state and maybe even the country?
Maryanne (03:26):
I would say there probably was efforts before, but MOAR was the first to last as long as we have. I guess it’s 34 years now or so. So yes, we were and yes, very much so.
Livia (03:39):
So, if you think about the journey and everything that has happened since the start of MOAR in 1991 and in the decades since, what do you think are some of the biggest challenges facing the field of recovery now?
Maryanne (03:54):
Well, I think one of the biggest challenges is that stigma still exists even after all the progress we have made. We also still struggle with consistent access to services across the full continuum from harm reduction to long-term recovery support. And I would say another challenge is historical amnesia. We don’t always capture and learn from what’s already been done. That’s one of the reasons I’m so passionate about documenting this movement as a recovery historian.
Livia (04:30):
And I know that you’re very much in the thick of doing a big history project and we will return to that in a little bit later just to give our audience a chance to hear about what that is. But if you think about the history of recovery, what would you want emerging and newer recovery leaders to know about the history of recovery?
Maryanne (04:55):
Well, yes. I would want them to channel their passion and encourage the leaders to ground their work in both history and community. Learn from those who came before us, people like William White, who is like the historian of historians when it comes to addiction recovery and wrote Slaying [of] the Dragon and understand what has worked. I would also encourage building strong coalition because no one organization can do this alone. And most importantly, elevate lived experience. Policy is most effective when it’s shaped by the people directly impacted. Remember, faces who are visible and voices who are vocal are going to prove that recovery is valuable and we need guidance practical and emotional to support when, whom, and where we share our stories with purpose, point and passion to reduce stigma and expand understanding of recovery.
Livia (05:57):
There’s so much there. Thank you. And I love that your passion about what we hope that leaders will do, we’ll remember because we stand on the shoulder of giants and some of those giants have, like you have, Maryanne, used their voice and shared their face in many different settings in certainly Massachusetts, but I also know you have nationwide. So, what would you recommend leaders think about to move the field forward?
Maryanne (06:28):
First, acknowledging gratitude. I’m very grateful to the support of the Massachusetts Bureau of Addiction Services (BSAS) and Bay State Community Services (BSCS) to support my role as a Massachusetts recovery historian. And Livia, I’m so grateful for the support that C4 has given and I am so grateful for my involvement in learning nationally through Faces and Voices of Recovery and gained so much experience. So, there you go. I would say learn the history. The recovery movement didn’t just happen. It was built through advocacy, persistence, and community voice. Understand the importance of visibility because visibility builds legitimacy and don’t take progress for granted. Many of the advances we have today came from hard work and it can be lost if we don’t stay engaged. At the same time, celebrate the wins, both big and small and document them for the future. Use Recovery Month every September and beyond to celebrate. And for a little bit of history, the first title of Recovery Month was “Treatment Works”, and then they changed it to Recovery Month. So, there you go. Lesson learned.
Livia (07:48):
Well, let’s dive into the Selected Moments project you’ve been working on. And by the way, I love that title rather than maybe a history timeline. It’s a selected moment. So please share a little bit about that project.
Maryanne (08:02):
Yes, most definitely. Well, here I am giving this project and lo and behold, I’m like, “How do I organize this, and do I just write out dates?” So, what happened was you introduced me to a woman named Jessica Wolf who had done something similar in the mental health world, and it was called Designline. And I liked the idea of putting pictures together. And so, I’ve been formulating the progress of MOAR through its beginnings in 1991 through what is current and what was supposed to be a fact sheet of dates that would only be four sides of 8 ½ by 11 has turned into about 30 at this point, but it’s done in segments of decades. So, when we’re ready, we’re going to show it. We already have a poster too that really is streamlined, and it is selected moments of the beginning and where we have gone to. So, there you go.
Livia (09:04):
So, what you’ve done is you have looked at the previous probably four decades at least of the recovery history in Massachusetts through your experience and through the experience of what’s happening in the state and also with the Massachusetts Organization for Addiction Recovery. And you’ve taken the time to really look at how do you best organize all of that data. And it sounds like you’re getting pretty close to having it completed. What is a way that folks can stay abreast of when it will be available?
Maryanne (09:40):
There will be a website that will be dedicated to capturing those selected moments. So, everybody hold on because it’s going to be coming maybe this summer, maybe recovery month, but it’s coming.
Livia (09:55):
Well, I know that I certainly am looking forward to seeing a final product. And I’m someone who also really believes in remembering our history and learning and not repeating things that can be avoided hopefully but also remembering there are so many people who have done so much to stand up and advocate and inspire and not give up. And sometimes when we feel that life is challenging or work is hard, it’s great to go back and learn about some of those giants, whether it’s in the community, state level, systems level and learn from them. And you mentioned William White, of course, one of the premier historians of the Addiction Recovery Movement, but I know there are others. And so, learning about them will be fascinating for me and something I look forward to digging into. So, what kind of wisdom might you be able to share with young people in the recovery movement? Because we do have another series where we are learning from young leaders and we are inviting you as a recovery elder, in the best sense of the word. What might you want to share with young people in the recovery movement?
Maryanne (11:08):
Absolutely. In the best sense of the word, yes. I would say stay connected to your own recovery, to your community and to your purpose. Find mentors and also be willing to lead. This work can be challenging. Take care of yourself, but don’t give up. Your voice matters and it belongs at the table.
Livia (11:34):
I love that. Do you have specific ideas around how to find a mentor that you might be able to share?
Maryanne (11:42):
Well, I would say look at somebody who’s respected, who has pioneered the way, has made changes and knock on their door. That’s what I did. I did a lot just blindly, but at the same time it was like, I can’t do this alone and I knew that much. And so, finding people, researching and don’t… Well, you might be afraid, but don’t let that rule you.
Livia (12:10):
Do it afraid. And at the edge of our comfort zone is growth. I do love that message. I often say that being uncomfortable has gotten a bad reputation and if we can be okay with being uncomfortable, then we can really do some things that we didn’t think we could. So, I love that advice. And I love that you just said, “Okay, well, can’t do this alone. I’m going to reach out. They might say no, but then I’m no worse off than I am now. And they might say yes or have some other ideas.” Knocking on somebody’s door virtually or in person makes a lot of sense. So, thank you. So, Maryanne, what keeps you going?
Maryanne (12:47):
Oh, well, I’m incredibly grateful to be alive and to be part of this movement. I find joy in simple things, walking, listening to audiobooks, being with family and friends, but also in seeing how much the recovery community movement has grown. I am happy to see more continue to grow under the new leadership of the new executive director, Noel Sierra, and the incredible staff with support from Bay State Community Services, BSAS, and the powerful recovery community. So, what truly keeps me going is the belief that recovery is possible and the excitement of seeing new leaders to step forward.
Livia (13:31):
Well, Maryanne, you and I have known each other for quite a few years now and I just want to take this opportunity to say thank you for all that you’ve taught me. You have certainly been a leader that I have looked to to understand the recovery movement as I came into working in this field in the early 2000s. So, thank you and thank you for joining us today.
Maryanne (13:56):
I would like to say thank you. It’s been a pleasure to have met you and see all the incredible work and endeavors that you have been involved in. And I thank C4 for the total experience.
Livia (14:09):
And to our listeners, join us next time on Changing the Conversation.
Lee Locke-Hardy (Producer) (14:15):
Visit C4innovates.com and follow us on LinkedIn and YouTube for more resources to grow your impact. Thank you for joining us. This episode was produced by Lee Locke-Hardy and Christina Murphy. Our theme song was written and performed by Peter Hanlon. Join us next time on Changing the Conversation.