An episode of Changing the Conversation podcast
Fred Way and Katie Boardman discuss starting new recovery residences with host Ashley Stewart.
October 20, 2025
[Music]
Ashley Stewart, Host (00:05): Hello and welcome to Changing the Conversation. I’m your host, Dr. Ashley Stewart, and today we’re going to be having a conversation about establishing recovery residences. I am joined today by Fred Way, who is the Program Manager of the National Alliance for Recovery Residences, or NARR, calling in from Philadelphia, PA. Thanks for joining us, Fred.
Fred Way, Guest (00:26): Thank you, Dr. Stewart, and I look forward to this.
Ashley (00:29): We also have joining us, Katie Boardman, Director of Administration and National Events at NARR, calling in from Minnesota.
(00:36):
Hey, Katie.
Katie Boardman, Guest (00:37): Hi, Dr. Stewart. Thanks for having me here today.
Ashley (00:40): Today we’re going to be diving into a topic that’s close to the hearts of many in the recovery community: what it takes to start a recovery residence. For many, the call to give back and create a safe supportive space for recovery is powerful, but the journey from inspiration to operation is complex and often misunderstood. So let’s dive into it and unpack the practical, financial, and community challenges involved and offer guidance for anyone considering this important work. Let’s get started. I’m wondering if both of you could just start off by telling us what does it mean for something to be a recovery residence? Like if we had to define recovery residences, what would you say it is, Katie?
Katie (01:22): Recovery residences are a family-oriented home where individuals who have substance use disorder come together to build skills, build community, and maintain and sustain their recovery through meetings, community connection, house managers who support in their day-to-day journey. And really it’s just a home, apartment, or any type of dwelling where individuals can live and practice their recovery.
Ashley (01:53): Awesome.
(01:54):
Fred, anything you’d add?
Fred (01:56): Yes, Dr. Stewart. Let me just say that recovery residences provide a structured supportive environment for individuals recovering from addiction, promoting the acquisition and practice of vital recovery skills with varying levels of support from peer driven to medically supervised settings. These residences are pivotal in nurturing the journey to sobriety and wellness.
Ashley (02:23): Thank you so much. Yeah. You know, we realized that some folks this may be their first time engaging with or learning about a recovery residence or people might even have the practical idea about how to create solutions for communities but not know how to frame that within the context of a recovery residence, so I think that foundation is super helpful. Many people may feel called to start one, but they don’t know what’s involved. They don’t realize the complexity of what it might all involve. And I’m wondering from your experience, what are the first steps that someone should take before even beginning the process?
Fred (03:04): Well, initially, if they’re interested in opening up a recovery residence, what they need to do first is understand what they’re getting into, as I say to them all the time, because a lot of people think that a recovery residence will make them money because they think that it takes medical insurance, and it doesn’t. And when I explain to them all the complexities of how to start and operate a recovery residence, a lot of times I get a step back from them to say, “Wow, I had no idea it takes that much.” So one of the things that we try to do is offer them enough technical assistance up front for them to make a real clear decision for themselves.
Ashley (03:57): Those are important things to think about, and I often wonder if maybe those are promptings or things that people think about that they feel like they even have support enough to consider.
Fred (04:09): Yes. That is true. However, in our world now because of the difficulties in funding, a lot of times it doesn’t, even though they may want to do it, but once we explain that what’s available and what’s not available, a lot of them will, at that point, make a decision for themselves that maybe that’s not the way they should go.
Ashley (04:34): Katie, anything you’d add about what are first steps that people should take?
Katie (04:39): I think when anyone calls into the Minnesota Association of Sober Homes, which is an affiliate that I have worked closely with, I always ask them what their motivation is and ground in like the why they’re calling and why they’re asking about how they start a recovery residence and really what draws them to start the process. And is it that they have a loved one or they’ve lived in recovery residences themselves, or are they a property owner and they don’t know what to do with a property they have and really kind of thinking and basing on the next prompts on their considerations for recovery residences and their why. So if it’s a property owner, I’ll frame prompts a little bit different than someone who may have already lived in a recovery residence and have a little bit of context about what they are and where they might need to start. But there’s a lot to consider for any person who is starting from scratch.
Ashley (05:36): I’d imagine that some of these conversations also are so important too because, and understanding the motivation, the why, but also people’s capacity to engage in this endeavor also helps to promote the culture and the intentionality and the values that are inherent in recovery residences and establishing them.
(06:00):
Fred, you talk a lot about a lot of the things that people often don’t contextualize or think about that might be involved in the process. Can you walk us through the key components of planning and budgeting for a recovery residence? What are some common pitfalls maybe or surprises that people might encounter?
Fred (06:18): Some of the common pitfalls, number one, is do you have enough on-hand finances to start a recovery residence? You know, as I’ve learned through the years of having someone want to start one, I tell them if you don’t have at least six months of operating capital upfront, then you need to reconsider starting a recovery residence. And I’ve learned that because it’s no need to open up one and then in three months you have to close. And at that point then you have to now move these either women or men from this recovery house to somewhere else.
(07:00):
And if you had took the steps, the initial steps, looking at that, obviously budgeting, knowing that you have the money to do it, how big is your house, what’s the capacity of the house, then a lot of those things you would already untouched yourself on and you probably would make that decision again that maybe this is not the way I should go. Okay? And a lot of individuals, and I’ve learned this, want to do this because, Dr. Stewart, they want to give something back and I really appreciate that and I tell them that, but then it’s more to wanting to give something back because it takes a whole lot more work to open up a recovery residence. It is work to do.
Ashley (07:42): I really appreciate that you say that because I think it’s also protective of people. People are engaging in this with good, thoughtful intentionality and then they’re in a space where when we think about what gives back to people when they engage in acts of compassion and empathy and creating solutions for other folks is overcoming barriers and obstacles can be incredibly discouraging. So if you can think about or be prepared on the front end, it really does provide an additional level of supports that people can make those goals and dreams a reality and also do so in a way that’s supportive to themselves and sustainable. So I think that’s really great things and pitfalls for people to process around.
(08:31):
Katie, when you think about community engagement and things like local regulations, perhaps this could be NIMBY-ism (“Not In My Back Yard”) or zoning requirements. These things can be major hurdles. Have you seen successful recovery residences navigate these challenges?
Katie (08:50): Absolutely. No matter where you open your recovery residence, whether it’s rural, city, suburb, you’re going to come into some sort of challenges and, just like you said, whether it’s NIMBY-ism where neighbors are against a recovery residence in their direct neighborhood, zoning, reasonable accommodations. So a home that wants to allow for more than four or five individuals may need to ask for reasonable accommodations to be allowed to have more beds. But I think I’ve seen some challenges over the years where it ends up being a court case.
(09:32):
But a lot of individuals who open recovery residences are able to do so by talking with their county, talking with their city council, talking with their neighbors, and being able to go through all of the zoning and reasonable accommodation process. I don’t like to discourage anyone who calls in and asks about the process. It can be long and grueling, which also takes in what Fred says about that budgeting. You may have a house, but it may take months of that house sitting empty to get through all of the city requirements in order to be granted the allowance to start a recovery residence. It can be expensive in applications. So those are things to definitely consider when budgeting and starting a recovery residence.
Ashley (10:20): Thank you so much for that. These are things that folks might not anticipate. And I love that you broke down NIMBY-ism even in your response. For folks who aren’t familiar with this concept of NIMBY-ism, it’s building off of an acronym, Not In My Backyard, and essentially people who have biases or stereotypes about what it looks like to live in community or be in community with recovery residences.
(10:46):
Fred, is this something that you’ve seen a bit? And how would you recommend someone navigate through those community dynamics?
Fred (10:54):
Well, piggybacking on Katie, you got to understand that regulations, zoning, certificates of occupancy vary from state to state. Okay? So what happens in Pennsylvania will be totally different than what happens in Minnesota. So the opening up a recovery residence may be a little easier path from one state to the other. It’s just a matter of walking the potential recovery house operator through those steps. And one of the things that we have here in PA is a sheet. It’s called the Operating Steps of Recovery Residence, which actually is a checklist of this is what you need to do in order to start your recovery residence. And what that does with people is shows them, oh, wow, I have to do all this. Oh, then maybe not. And then that actually, what it has done for me is to cut down on phone calls, because if you look at the list, and if you want to go forward, then call me back. And if you don’t, then I guess your decision was not to want to open and start your recovery residence.
Ashley (12:08): Yeah. That’s helpful.
(12:10):
Katie, I know it varies so much by state to state. Do you see in Minnesota similar trends in providing support or documents that help people move with clarity?
Katie (12:21): One biggest thing in Minnesota is it not only varies by state to state, but it varies by county to county and city to city. There is no one size fits all four steps in that city component or state component and zoning. So we, unfortunately, don’t have a nice handy document to give anyone specifically in Minnesota. I always encourage individuals to look to other recovery residences who might be operating in their community and drawing on knowledge of process by calling up other operators. I have found specifically here in Minnesota that a lot of the recovery residences operating will definitely talk about the process for state and city regulations and willing to share that information with individuals.
Ashley (13:17): Thank you. I think leaning into the differences among states is such an important nuance, especially for someone who’s listening who might not be in Pennsylvania or Minnesota. There might not be a same process across state to state, but ultimately there are places and people who you can connect with and resources that are available as you’re able to identify them.
(13:41):
Now, I know that there are different levels of recovery houses each with unique requirements and expectations. Fred, could you explain the main differences and how someone should decide which level is right for their community?
Fred (13:54): Yes. Well, if we are speaking of the National Alliance for Recovery Residences’ level of support, then you’re looking at four levels, and usually there’s only three that we use and the affiliates mostly use, which are level one, which is a model that is self-governed by the residents in the house where they actually choose the new resident that actually comes in, and it works well. They’re independent. It’s independent living. They can go and come as they please. And you have level two, which is monitored, which is obviously it’s a bit more structure. They cannot go and come as they please. They have to sign in and out, usually have a house manager or a senior resident for oversight. And that model then jumps up to level three, which is supervised, again, a higher structure. You have more in-house services in the house, more meetings. And then we have level four, which is usually a treatment center.
Ashley (15:05): Thank you so much. Those distinctions are helpful and I think even breaking it down or just hearing it in such a clear, plain way is helpful because levels can be intimidating for people to navigate.
(15:18):
So just to round us out a little bit more, I want to circle back to something that you said earlier, Katie, which is that you never want to discourage someone who has the passion and the commitment to doing this while also helping them recognize any potential obstacles and opportunities that present along the way. For those who are listening who are inspired to start a recovery residence, what advice or resources would you recommend help them move from a vision to reality?
Katie (15:47): I think there are a lot of online resources that we can look towards with the National Alliance of Recovery Residences on their website. SAMHSA also has a best practice for recovery housing packet that they created. Besides all those online resources, I think it’s really important to get connected within your community and connected with other individuals who operate and run recovery residences. A lot of our states also have affiliates, which is a state-run association that helps maintain those NARR standards within a state. And a lot of our affiliates have resources on their websites as well. You can find a list of NARR affiliates on the NARRonline.org website and contact them, and each of those affiliates also have tons of resources on their websites and training materials.
(16:43):
I think there’s so much to navigate when even thinking about starting a recovery residence and before anyone just jumps right into, hey, I’m going to start a house next week, slowing down and considering all of those things that Fred talked about earlier, the funding and furnishing your house, and who am I opening this house for: men, women, women and children, LGBTQ plus communities, different religious backgrounds or demographic, you know, there’s so many things to consider before you start who’s coming to my house. And then where are these individuals going to come from? When you start the house and you open the door, individuals aren’t just going to show up and knock and say, “Hey, I want to live here.” But thinking about those referral sources and the communities that you want to connect with and start to market. Starting from scratch with a business plan is always an important, but knowing that there’s resources out there if you start to look for them.
Ashley (17:47): Thank you.
(17:49):
Fred, anything you’d like to add on to that? Any words of encouragement that you’d give to someone bringing this to reality?
Fred (17:56): Yes. Understand that NARR today has 32 affiliates across the United States, and those affiliates will assist someone who is interested in opening up a recovery residence. We will help them from putting together their policies and procedures, their residents’ rights, how to operate the house, and that’s actually called technical assistance. We will give them recommendations for insurance, on how to get it. Okay. We will walk them step by step to make the whole process easier. I’m in the active process of walking two women right now who finally got their house in Harrisburg and they should be opening in the next 30 days. They are extremely happy, and I am also because it’s been at least a six month plan to get them up and ready, and now they are. And that’s what the state affiliate will do for the individual who’s interested in opening a recovery residence.
Katie (19:00): And I’ll add to what Fred says. All of our affiliates have different levels of technical assistance. Some may be able to provide more than others. Some are larger affiliates that are funded through their state and have training and tons of support. And then there are other affiliates who may or may not have the capacity to provide a ton of technical assistance to someone who is just starting out and wanting to know “How do we start a recovery residence”, which is why this podcast actually came to be, is how do we help individuals who may not have a state affiliate with tons of technical assistance power to walk everyone through. So it’s important to remember that not all affiliates are the same, but all affiliates are there for that same common, and that is to make sure that all of the recovery residences that they certify are to a level of standards that meet those NARR standards. And I think that that’s really important work that they are doing.
Ashley (20:04): Katie, Fred, thank you so much for sharing your insights and your reflections. I admire deeply, not only what you do in your states, but what you do across the national landscape. So I want to thank you both personally so much for making time to share our expertise with us.
(20:19):
Thank you, Katie.
Katie (20:20): Thank you Dr. Stewart. I’m happy to be here today.
Ashley (20:23): And thank you, Fred.
Fred (20:24): Thank you for having me, Dr. Stewart, and I look forward to continuing this work with you.
Ashley (20:30): And to our listeners, join us next time on Changing the Conversation.
Erika Simon, Producer (20:34):
Visit C4Innovates.com and follow us on LinkedIn and YouTube for more resources to grow your impact. Thank you for joining us. This episode was produced by Erika Simon and Christina Murphy. Our theme song was written and by Peter Hanlon. Join us next time on Changing the Conversation.