An episode of “Changing the Conversation” podcast
Keon Lewis and Ashley Stewart discuss the importance of addressing suicide prevention strategies and resources in the workplace. Trigger Warning.
May 7, 2024
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Ashley Stewart, Host (00:05): Hello and welcome to Changing the Conversation. I’m your host, Dr. Ashley Stewart, the Director of the Center on Health Equity at C4 Innovations. Today I am joined by Keon Lewis. Keon Lewis is an Equity Coordinator at C4 Innovations and Board Chair for the North Carolina Chapter of the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, also known as AFSP. And Keon has become a member of Chapter Leadership Council for the National American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. Keon, thank you so much for joining us today.
Keon Lewis, Guest (00:40): Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure to be here.
Ashley (00:41): Today, we’re going to be talking about a really important topic. We are talking about suicide prevention from a workforce standpoint. Now, I know that I’ve heard a lot of conversations about suicide prevention, but rarely have I heard about it from a workforce standpoint so I’m really excited to get into this conversation with you today.
Keon (01:00): I definitely appreciate the opportunity to bring this to light, but also really talk about the scope of the importance of it, as well as some good strategies and best practices, and what are some of the dynamics that led to us having to have this conversation about the workforce dynamics that would prompt more suicide prevention practices.
Ashley (01:21): Yeah. I think this is a really timely discussion, particularly acknowledging that May is National Mental Health Awareness Month and in general, this is a important topic to cover. I’m also aware that this is something that very well could be impacting our listeners personally. So I just want to take a moment to honor the topic, honor this space, and honor the reality that is mental health awareness and suicide prevention in our personal lives as we go into our conversation for today.
Keon (01:50): Thank you Dr. Ashley, for establishing a safe space. That’s very important. This is, as you stated, a very sensitive topic, one that could potentially be triggering to others, and we want to be respectful and be mindful of that. I’m happy and excited that we are able to establish the safe space to have this dialogue, but to most importantly, talk about some good practices and some good strategies that can come out of it.
Ashley (02:15): Absolutely. A note on it for the listeners, you might hear us use some different terms. So in this work, you might hear people often refer to triggers, triggers being things that evoke or bring up similar experiences or activate things for other folks. You might hear me reference activation. We’re using those terms synonymously. I use activation because I do a lot of gun violence work in big cities, and so I often will use the term activation or activated instead of trigger or triggering. Just a note for the listeners, if you hear us use them interchangeably, we’re referring to the same experience in the body and just using different terms to describe it.
(03:01): So Keon, how about you get us kicked off and talk a little bit about how important this topic is to talk about suicide prevention from a workforce standpoint?
Keon (03:12): Yeah. When we look at the scope of suicide and suicide prevention, we all know it as a very complex dynamic. There are a lot of factors, everything ranging from historical context to family dynamics, trauma experiences, even present day diagnosis that an individual may be aware of or in some cases unaware of. So when we are talking about the scope of suicide, it is a complex topic and it’s one that revolves around a vast array of different mechanisms that come into play that could play a significant factor on whether an individual feels as if their lives are worthy enough to continue living or if they’re having any type of ideations or any type of potential thoughts of taking their lives.
(04:06): So, yeah, it is a very sensitive topic. It is one that comes with an enormous amount of stigma, and I think that’s why it’s so important for us to have this conversation today is to really address the stigma in the room and to address those dynamics that come with having this conversation, but to also highlight the importance of those best practices and the steps that we can take to create more comfortable work environments, more comfortable dialogue, but also be smarter in the way we have those conversations so that we are respectful of those who have direct lived experiences revolving around suicide, but to also make it comfortable in the sense of it being able to educate others who may not.
Ashley (04:49): Yeah. In thinking about these conversations in the workspace directly, one of the barriers to having the conversation that I think we see show up there are people feeling uncomfortable or not knowing what words or what language to even use in talking about suicide and talking about lived experience with suicide or lived experience with ideation. And so you’ll have folks who refer to it differently, folks who will talk about it as suicide, some folks will talk about desires to unalive, some folks will talk about it in death by suicide. There’s some intricacies, some nuance, and a lot of sensitivity in how we even talk about suicide and ideation and the workplace. What language have you heard best received and how can people potentially navigate through some knowledge gaps that they have around how to talk about suicide prevention and ideation?
Keon (05:48): I think you definitely hit the nail on the head with that by demonstrating the difference in how it’s even described. Remember, there was a point in time where people would often say someone committed suicide, and I’m grateful that we have now transitioned into a state where we’re now seeing that someone took their life because we don’t want that negative connotation that comes with saying that someone committed something. Because often you think about someone committing a crime or committing something that has extremely negative ramifications. So when we’re talking about the verbiage and the language of suicide, that has evolved as a result of our comfort in being able to have more conversations about it, to bring more education, to see the changes in policies and the language in those policies in the workplace as well as outside of it. So I think that’s part of the dynamic with augmenting awareness of suicide prevention is making the community, and in this case, as we’re talking about the workforce environment, making them aware that these terms have changed, they have evolved.
(06:54): So now we’re being a lot more culturally competent, we’re being a lot more emotionally intelligent and more sensitive to the way these terms are being used so that it can relate in a way so that people have a better understanding of suicide and suicide prevention. But going back to your original point that we’re also not seeing terms or using dynamics that could be activating towards others.
Ashley (07:19): I’d imagine that’s something that folks would be interested in having a dialogue around as well, is how do you know if suicide should be addressed or when it is appropriate in the workspace?
Keon (07:33): I think before you introduce anything new to the workplace, especially dealing with this topic, and as sensitive as it is, you have to get a pulse of what’s needed. You have to know the level or the capacity that you’re able to provide those dynamics. And so oftentimes that prompts an organization, large or small, to have to get a feel for what has been experienced within the workplace, and so that can come in a variety of ways. You can do focus groups. You can do one-on-one conversations. You can prompt supervisors or departmental directors to bring it up as a part of an agenda item for a departmental huddle. Or you can do a survey in which talks about the dynamics of mental health and wellness and to really get a pulse on if… Not necessarily getting into extreme details on if someone has experienced any type of suicidal ideations, but to really get a feel on if they’re currently dealing with a crisis or if they’re aware of someone that has dealt with it or if they even see the need or that it would be important to bring it to the workplace.
(08:37): And from that feedback, the different executive leadership members, board members, whoever is in the leadership role, to be able to make that decision to offer it to the workplace, be able to use that feedback as the data and as the guiding force on the level of education, the level of support and the level of suicide prevention materials that could be introduced within the workforce.
Ashley (09:03): That’s so good and that’s so helpful. When talking about things like organizational wellness or organizational wellbeing, self-care in the workplace, we’ve been thinking about it lately from a multi-tier approach and we’re thinking about it through individuals who are directly impacted. We’re thinking about people who are bystanders or observers of things that are happening in the workplace. And we’re also thinking about it through the lens of people who are in leadership positions or managerial positions or occupy roles around decision-making in the workplace, and that there’s something for all people involved to do. Sometimes the responsibility or the onus of a topic gets placed on that individual as opposed to seeing it as a systemic structural organizational issue.
(10:00): I noticed that you talked about materials and things that would evoke a culture change around mental health and wellness and safety in the workplace. How do you see this through the lens of leaders and policies, as well as people who might be colleagues or coworkers who are observing things, but also play a really important role in creating a culture of support and inclusion around mental health in the workforce?
Keon (10:32): You’re right, it does. Everything rises and falls on leadership. You have to have a group, and you have to have individuals who are open to having these types of conversations, as well as being innovative in the way that education and the way that material is being delivered.
(10:51): So for example, when we are looking at key tools like Mental Health First Aid, this is a great tool that is now being introduced to organizations throughout the country and now throughout the world on how to even acknowledge when there is even a crisis, when something is even existing, and how do we become a conduit to someone or even ourselves to the resources to better support us in those times of need or in this case, a time of crisis. So you have to have leaders who are trained on those dynamics. You have to have leaders who are open to learning about those tools, but also those who are, just as you stated, receptive to the feedback and the inclusivity of their staff in being able to identify what those resources are.
(11:41): Because truth be told, you may have some staff members or direct reports within your respective organization who has those lived experiences or who are associated or affiliated with organizations like AFSP, MHA, NAMI, et cetera, who can share those tools and share those resources that they’re already familiar with, that they have already developed some comfort with. So what better individuals to introduce these materials or this education to their own staff than their own colleagues? Whether they’re speaking from their personal experience or speaking from their research experience or a combination of both.
(12:19): I think there’s a unique and a powerful opportunity to be able to introduce these materials and to introduce these trainings, but to also do it in such an inclusive way that it doesn’t necessarily have to come from the board chair or the CEO. It could come from the fellow colleagues within that department. I think that is an incredible opportunity that a lot of organizations may have missed out on, but are now looking into utilizing moving forward.
Ashley (12:49): Whole system, whole organization change. I love getting into the reality of that. It’s yes. It’s not, “Let me provide these resources. That’s the work that I’ve done. Now, it’s done.” People have to understand it, people have to lean into it and appreciate it. There needs to be an organizational commitment to wellness and utilization of these resources, appreciation for lived experience, of value for expertise that comes and brings this valuable knowledge into the workplace.
(13:26): You mentioned a few times about inclusivity, and I know that that’s something that’s been sprouting in our conversation today. Looking at different cultural standpoints, family traditions, faith, spiritualities, these things influence how people are experiencing conversations around mental health, what’s going on in people’s lives, people’s receptiveness to having these conversations in general, and so the conversation might look different for different populations. What are some things to consider around navigating cultural variables around mental health in the workplace?
Keon (14:02): When we look at it from the cultural standpoint, we can look at everything from just the historical context as to why certain cultures don’t even acknowledge it. You have dynamics that can be incorporated from a spiritual standpoint. You have those of us who are leaning more highly on our faith and saying, “Hey, if I’m dealing with this dynamic or if I’m experiencing a crisis, I’m going to lean more on my faith than I am going to look at going to a counselor.” So a vast array of factors like that come into play when we’re talking about the cultural significance and those things that have been embedded in individuals since they’ve been born and so you have to take that into account.
(14:50): So when we’re at developing those resources and we look at how those things will be introduced, we have to take an account of who is in those rooms as we’re introducing this and making sure that, “Hey, if we provide this resource, is there anything that’s mentioned or stated in this that is offensive to you or that you are unaware of?” So you have to be able to make sure that you have a good diverse group of voices in those rooms as you’re making those decisions and developing those strategies. But also making sure you demonstrate a high level of cultural competency before even the first opportunity is even presented in the workplace.
Ashley (15:31): Yeah. And recognizing it’s not a one size, one strategy fits all. It’s not a one-resource solution. It’s something that really involves knowledge, fluidity, and a willingness to explore different options with people that will be most aligned and appropriate and culturally attuned.
(15:59): We know that this is an important conversation to have in the workplace, and many organizations want to, are interested in, passionate about having these conversations, not only talking about it, but also being actionable in doing something about it, developing the appropriate resources, changing the culture to be most supportive, leading with trauma-informed and equity-centered practices. And also we also know that there are going to be some barriers, inevitably, to getting these kinds of conversations, this type of movement in the workplace. So I’m wondering what are some best practices to help engage this conversation where there might be resistance?
Keon (16:50): Two examples I would like to share. So one, I wanted to reference an article that I read that was actually written by Jackie Stevens. It’s a blog. So she talks about her own experiences in dealing with suicidal ideation as well as losing a close friend to suicide, but she talks about why workplace suicide prevention matters. And the thing that really stood out to me is how she was talking about the workplace can either be a place of risk in prompting those barriers or those things that could activate someone to feel that way. But it also can be a place of a preventative measure.
(17:26): So when we’re talking about introducing these things, we have to look at what dynamics exist within the workplace that might be a risk to someone that might activate them. But then we also have to be able to capitalize on the preventative measures that exist or that may not exist, and what can we do to put those things in place, whether it’s making the staff members more aware of EAP, employee assistance programs, or outside counseling services and dynamics that support them. So that’s one of the ways that we can do it, is assess the risk versus the preventative measures that exist in the workplace.
(18:01): But then we also have to take a deeper dive and look at programs that are available. For example, like with AFSP, we have a program called Let’s Save Lives, and it’s driven on listening, empathy, trust, and support. So with this particular program, it’s catered towards the Black and African-American communities. So when you have culturally competent programming and education materials like that that are available and tailored towards specific audiences, that’s just another unique way that you can say, “Hey, we’re not only looking at the risk factors, we’re looking at the preventative factors, but we’re also bringing content to you that is tailored towards different audiences, different targeted populations, and that speaks to a different group at different times.”
(18:46): So just as you stated, we can’t just put everyone in one box and say, this material is going to help you, or this content is going to support you. We also have to be mindful that there’s going to require specific tailored content and tailored materials that is emotionally intelligent, and culturally aware, and speaks to that audience that it needs to resonate with.
Ashley (19:08): Keon, this has been such a dynamic, important, and powerful conversation. We’re so grateful for your expertise, your advocacy, and your willingness to engage this conversation, not from one particular standpoint, but taking a multi-variable approach, recognizing the nuances and the layers of complexity to really think about how we have these conversations and how we move forward with addressing and supporting and creating space for people to be well in the workplace and addressing suicide prevention through the lens of what workforces can do. Thank you so much for being willing to join us today and share all this information and providing helpful links, which folks can find in the show notes.
Keon (20:00): Thank you, Dr. Ashley, I greatly appreciate it. And just wanted to reinforce your opening statement in that we understand and we respect the lived experiences of those who will be listening to this, but to also remind you that you’re not alone and that there are incredible resources out there available to you. We also have the new National Hotline, 988, to make sure you utilize that if you are aware of a crisis that you may be experiencing or someone close to you. We just want to encourage you to continue to be supportive of one another and to be mindful of the different dynamics that you’re experiencing in and outside of the workplace. Thank you for being a listening ear to this topic.
Ashley (20:43): So, so much love. To our listeners, join us next time on Changing the Conversation.
Erika Simon, Producer (20:50): Visit c4innovates.com and follow us on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube for more resources to grow your impact. Thank you for joining us. This episode was produced by Erika Simon and Christina Murphy. Our theme song was written and performed by Peter Hanlon. Join us next time on Changing the Conversation.
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